In the second episode of Contributions I talk to the wonderful Marina Glogovac, CEO of CanadaHelps the nonprofit social enterprise focused on providing accessible and affordable digital tools to charities.
It was a fascinating conversation, as you would expect from someone that has held leadership roles at companies like Lavalife and Kobo and is now using that experience to bring positive change to our sector.
Andrew Mosawi
Hi, welcome to contributions with me Andrew Mosawi. My guest this week is Marina Glogovac. Marina is the President and CEO of Canada Helps. It's one of the largest providers of digital fundraising solutions for charities here in Canada. Marina has been president and CEO since 2013. Before that, she had a very successful career in the for-profit world in the technology sector as well, CMO for Kobo, and then CEO for Lava Life. Looking forward as always to chatting with Marina about what she's seen over that time and what she thinks of the future of the sector.
Andrew Mosawi
Marina, hi, how are you?
Marina Glogovac
I'm good. Hi, Andrew. How are you doing?
Andrew Mosawi
I'm doing well, thank you. For once it's a nice day in Vancouver and I think I’m going to try to find a way to enjoy it. How are you in Toronto? How is everything?
Marina Glogovac
It's nice. It's nice here today as well. Pretty sunny. It's not that hot. But it's nice.
Andrew Mosawi
Good, good. Marina, thanks so much for joining Contributions. I really appreciate it. I know your schedule is hectic and busy, especially now so I really appreciate it. You know, one thing I would love to kick off on is to talk a little bit about Canada Helps. Congratulations on the 20th anniversary. It'd be great to hear a little bit about Canada Helps in your own words if that's okay.
Marina Glogovac
Right, for sure. Well, Canada Helps is a very unique, technology organization and a public foundation that is dedicated to increasing giving in Canada through technology. We primarily do this through two programs. One is a website where Canadians can come and donate to or engage with any registered charity in Canada or set up a monthly payment or fundraise or donate securities, bonds, stocks. That's a very, very popular, very trusted, very successful platform, kind of a one-stop-shop for all things giving in Canada. Also, and I would say more importantly, we build fundraising technology for smaller charities much like Shopify, who were often compared to. We build a platform so that smaller charities can have digital technology, that it's affordable, it's accessible, it's effective. Most importantly, they don't need to have a massive kind of in-house know how in order to set it up. So, it's very, very simple. That's our kind of b2b line. We have almost 24,000 charities that are using us. We do, of course, create a lot of education and webinars because with increasing digital capacity it's not just about technology or software. It's a lot about the know-how and the acquisition of that know how in best practices. So, we do all of that. We have been around for 20 years, Andrew and have grown very much every year in high double digits. Especially this last year, when we saw this tremendous acceleration toward all things digital.
Andrew Mosawi
Did I read somewhere that one third of Canada's online volume of donations comes through Canada Helps?
Marina Glogovac
That's true.
Andrew Mosawi
Wow.
Andrew Mosawi
So, you took over as the CEO in 2013. Before that you had an incredibly successful career in tech leading organizations in a few different sectors. Tell me a little bit about why you made the move? What made you decide to move from the for-profit sector into the nonprofit sector?
Marina Glogovac
Right. Well, I was curious about the nonprofit sector. I think it's also fair to say, Andrew that maybe I got a bit tired of VCs and startups and founders and, you know, very, very intense ... I went through a few very intense matter of fundraising constantly. I also think that I, at that time, and following some personal circumstances really wanted to reconnect with the idealism of my youth. The best way I can put it, I just wanted to see if I could use my skills in management and leadership and technology, media content, if I could do something that actually means more. But to be honest, I did not know I did not predict that I would stay this long. I thought I would go in and this opportunity with Canada Helps emerged and I thought it was such an amazing fit for me. But I thought I'd stay a year or two, and, you know, do what I needed to do. But we kept growing, we kept being busy. To be honest, once you start doing something that is deeply meaningful, and it adds a whole different layer of engagement in your life, it's really hard to go back. I kept looking at other opportunities back into for-profit. And I'm like, no, I don't really want to go into Mar-tech, or Ed-tech, or FinTech or selling things. When I have now met hundreds and hundreds of incredibly inspiring people who are leaders of charities in Canada, and I've got acquainted with, you know, what they're trying to do. It's really hard to walk away from that.
Andrew Mosawi
Yeah, it's a recurring theme with folks. And by the way, first of all, going back to the idealism of youth, I'm going to use that myself. Because it's great and powerful and so true. It's a recurring thing with many of the people that I'm talking to on Contributions, that they come into the sector, through just happenstance through one single opportunity, but once they're in, they just find it very difficult to leave because of the people, because of the passion, the purpose of the sector, because it's infectious. Some of the people that I'm talking to, like yourself, you've been in eight, nine, ten years. There are some folks, I've just talked to Daryl Upsall a few weeks ago and he's been 35 years in the sector. As you say, once you're in, it's difficult to leave.
Andrew Mosawi
So, tell me a little bit about the change you've seen in that time. I mean, the last eight, nine years in the sector. Even just putting the last year aside, what are the big differences that you've seen, the big changes in the sector in terms of how it's evolved?
Marina Glogovac
Well, it definitely it has been evolving. The sector has been around for a long time. So, in some ways, it's that all space that could become, you know, a status quo that I was a magazine publisher, before I got into the tech proper. And so, I understand those big industries, and the change of the sector is a very big part of Canadian economy. I mean, that's one thing that maybe so many people don't understand that it's actually very consequential to the Canadian economy in terms of its contribution to the GDP, and you know, the number of people that it employs.
Marina Glogovac
I've seen charities come around to the importance of digital and, of course, this is something I've been preaching forever. Even before I got in here. But I've seen charities have really embraced that more than ever. I think charities continue to under invest in themselves. That's more of a systemic issue that plagues the entire sector that is particularly pernicious right now. I think that under investment, especially under investment into the digital capacity, is really what's preventing charities from achieving greater impact. I'm very convinced of that.
Marina Glogovac
Also, some things have not changed that are a bit of a concern. The first one is that we've been seeing this through our own billing reports now for years that most giving in Canada is still falling on the shoulders of Canadians aged 55 plus, and they give at twice the rate of younger Canadians. There is no indication that the giving by this younger population will replace when these older Canadians can no longer give. So that kind of remains an issue, I think, for everyone. How to engage younger adults in Canada. And of course, that has a lot to do with technology and a few other things. One successful thing that we tried, that I think could be successful is the creation of our cause funds, where we basically aggregated a whole bunch of charities into certain verticals, they're a little bit like mutual funds. There are a whole bunch of charities that are addressing the same space, the same cause can be donated to through a single transaction. We did that because we read a lot of research and trends that basically say that younger adults are more interested in causes, than, you know, individual charities necessarily. So, I think this is the gap that that we'll have to cross somehow, in terms of the next 10, 20, 30 years.
Andrew Mosawi
Yeah, I saw those cause funds. Such a great idea because, you know, I think that over time, there seems to be that disintermediation with the generation that wants to have that impact. They want to support a cause as opposed to an organization. So, what Canada Helps has done there is, is fascinating to me. You have a really great report, your giving report for any viewers that haven't seen, go to Canada Helps, there's a great giving report in it. You talk about how actually; a worrying trend is that the number of Canadians that are giving is going down. So even though the percentage in the volume of digital and online fundraising is going up, the actual aggregate number is going down? Do you think that's reversible?
Marina Glogovac
Well, yes. And we actually made a projection as to what will happen, what did happen in 2020. I think there are lots of big changes afoot. I think we'll be seeing in our giving report how flat the top line of giving is, especially if you take inflation into account and how it's really not keeping commensurate space with relation to the growth in population. So, we see lower participation. Of course, you know, why that is a whole different discussion that can range from economic factors and cost of living, to more demographic and preferences.
Marina Glogovac
As I often talk about the blurring of the lines, because don't forget, this is an era of corporate brand marketing. Corporations market themselves these days as social change agents and social good agents, because that's kind of the sign of the times, that's what their millennial employees demand. So corporations act as charities really as as conveyors of social good, and social impact, that's how they're positioning themselves. There are so many examples of that. That is just how branding is today, like everybody wants to be not just about, you know, selling services or products, but also about being engaged. Then we've seen that also in the demand that CEOs take stance on social issues, and we see this a lot in the state, it's really a different era. But what there has also done, Andrew, is that for younger people, it has really empowered this line between what is a charity, what is my company doing at its foundation. What is the crowdfunding, which is a for-profit, because they all appear to be doing the same thing? I think maybe on the part of the younger adults, there is not enough appreciation of what charities really are, and how creative and amazing you know, original social entrepreneurs they are, that also do not have any other agenda, but are driven authentically by the mission to change the world in in the area that they chose. And they may not have the sleekest user interface, right? They may not have the sleekest merchandising, and in reality, they are different. And they really are the people who you know, will turn away no one if you knock on their doors, right? Because they're driven, it's just very different, you know.
Marina Glogovac
So that's definitely one one of the reasons but I think that the big issue of how to engage younger people, for generations to come will remain a big question. And even those younger people will change their behavior and start donating more or engaging more as they enter different phases of life. I mean, one thing is for sure that they will not leave technology, I think the technology trend and the trend towards mobile and online donations, is firmly established, because the digital economy is now accelerated its expansion, right? So, no matter what things will be done through technology, and through digital channels, because that was already happening before the pandemic, as you know, but now the pandemic has greatly accelerated all of the strains from like digital health to more online shopping. It has grown in Canada to 10%; it was always like four or 5%, and in the United States it's now 16%. So, no matter what I think the shift to digital and really going through the digital transformation is something that charities will have to really grapple with in order to not just survive, but really try. Let's not forget that technology is disruptive. And transition is very hard. I can talk about that for my life. Firsthand experience as a magazine publisher back in 2000. They're also enormous opportunities. They're also enormous opportunities to not be constrained by physical barriers to offer your programs across the country. To also collaborate and invent other things to achieve. There lots of opportunities presented in it.
Andrew Mosawi
Yeah. Do you think that, and I'm interested to know, how Canada Helps sort of weathered the COVID storm last year? What I'm interested also is a perspective of, obviously, we're all talking about digital, about how charities are pivoting to, you know, moving away from galas to online events. Do you think that's fundamentally going to change the way charities operate and fundraise and go-to-market? Or do you think that it is something that COVID has created and then it'll go back to the way that it was?
Marina Glogovac
I don't think it will go back to the way it was. I mean there are lots of authors and commentators and really smart people who are basically saying, and I agree with them that COVID, and this pandemic, has fundamentally changed the way we live, operate. For example, we know that we will likely have the hybrid workplace and some remote workplace forever, right? Very few people that I know expect for staff to return to the office. There are certain things that our behaviors are about I mean, digital health, now that we know this works, and lots of doctors have invested into different interfaces. I think everybody basically saying that trends that were already present in this growth of digital economy have now been accelerated, and they're here to stay. That does not mean that overnight we will not have any offline fundraising, or I don't think so. But I think that this big trend will continue. Eventually. And I don't know what will become a dominant force.
Marina Glogovac
I can show lots of parallels with a magazine and newspaper print industry and what has happened from the beginning to where that space is at now and how subscribers are acquired and how few inserts into newspapers, I see for subscriber acquisition where before that was a dominant. I think this change is afoot, and I don't think it's going to stop. I think that pandemic and this experience with it will actually alter so many ways in which we live forever. That's what I think.
Andrew Mosawi
And Canada Helps plays a big part in that because obviously, you're providing the tools for the organizations that perhaps have delayed a real strategic focus on your providing the tools that allow them to get there. So I'm sure last year for you was a very busy year.
Marina Glogovac
Yes, and last year was, and to be honest, I didn't know what to expect, because this was my first year when something so huge has happened in the charitable sector, so I didn't know, we know that a lot of charities suffered so many of them lost, loss of revenues. I didn't really know what to think. Luckily, and thank God, because we worked for years to create all this, all of a sudden, the demand to set up online fundraising capabilities, and to really learn how to be more effective has literally skyrocketed. We at one point had literally, three, four or 500 charities reaching out every week in a panic, ready to set themselves up. We worked so hard, almost to the point that in broke us to try and accommodate all that because we were caught a bit as a charity ourselves. It may have been different in the for-profit sector. We didn't invest ahead of this curve. We were hiring people as we were trying to serve our charities and help them, but I think in the last calendar year we generated and processed close to $500 million, which is more than double what we did the year before. A big part of that success were the cause funds that we created. That were there, right? They just became such a good thing for the moment. We then had to scale and invest in hiring more people, and we're actually continuing to do this, because when so many communities rely on you for their donation processing and for the effectiveness of those tools, you have a great responsibility. That is the very mission of why we exist and why we're very committed to that.
Marina Glogovac
You know, it's interesting, Andrew, for me, because we talked about this before. Overnight, I didn't have to convince anyone that digital transformation is important. So that's what's changed. When I talk about how charities needed to invest into their own capacity, people didn't understand this. I feel that people understand that better now, because we're going to be talking about investment in technology, and the acquisition of digital skills. Everybody understands that costs money. It's not something you can do on a shoestring, or you can do with some old computer, so their core infrastructure around technology or really bolstering charities capability to live, to survive, to be effective in this age. That everybody understands that that will come it has to come within them, it cannot come in any other way. I think there's a shift that people are kind of recognizing more readily than before. Not to mention that for charities to be effective in the future, they will be competing for digital talent with small, medium sized businesses, corporations, other technology companies, banks. So no longer will it be possible to hire low skilled people because you can pay them 1/3 of market salary. I see some of those are structural gaps that will have to be solved. Some of them will go, it's like deeply held, paradigms and assumptions that we all have about charities.
Andrew Mosawi
Yeah. And it goes back to the point that you were making earlier on about some of the challenges in terms of how organizations can invest, and the perceived challenges investing in the infrastructure in order to grow. That's probably a bigger topic than today.
Andrew Mosawi
I think it's a great place to end on but before I let you go, Marina, I do want to go through the Quick Six. They are six of the same questions I ask everyone on Contributions. We're going to go through them sort of very quickly.
Andrew Mosawi
So, the least favorite app on your iPhone, or on your phone, I should say,
Marina Glogovac
Rain? Because it doesn't work half on time?
Andrew Mosawi
Okay, good. That's a good one. Your favorite song?
Marina Glogovac
Okay, I love almost everything by the Talking Heads and David Byrne. Once in a Lifetime, Haven't, and She Was.
Andrew Mosawi
So, I'm going to I'm going to pause this Quick Six to say that's fantastic! I love Talking Heads, so much so that I've played them around the house, and it is now my son's favourite band.
Marina Glogovac
Oh come on! That's so adorable!
Andrew Mosawi
Great choice! Favourite movie?
Marina Glogovac
Oh, I love so many. I love so many. But I have to say that I remember being kind of mind blown at university when I discovered this iconic Russian, somewhat cultish movie director called Andrei Tarkovsky and his movie Stalker, which, yeah, blew my mind. So, I remain a big devotee of his.
Andrew Mosawi
Thank you. If you could live anywhere else in the world, where would it be?
Marina Glogovac
Canada. I think Canada is the best place. I grew up in communism. I moved around, I traveled, I lived in the States. I think Canada is the best place. There is nowhere else that I would rather live.
Andrew Mosawi
Great. What is the first nonprofit that you remember really having an impact on you and resonating with you?
Marina Glogovac
Well, I grew up in communism and in communism, we didn't have charities as we know them here. Government was really looking after people who needed help and it's different, but I remember when I moved here, Andrew, I moved here in 1987. In 1989, I went to the Toronto Humane Society and adopted a dog and I remain connected to them, and I just absolutely love dogs and animal rescues. I think they do such important work.
Andrew Mosawi
Fantastic. And lastly, and this is gonna be difficult because you've had an extraordinarily broad career. If you could have any other profession, if you could do any other profession or at least attempt it, what would it be?
Marina Glogovac
Well, before I moved here and became an immigrant, I was going to be a professor in literary theory and a book critic, and that remains a huge passion. Maybe it’s still not too late or maybe in another life.
Andrew Mosawi
Never too late. Never too late. Thank you so much for taking the time. As always, it's great to see you. It's a pleasure to talk to you and thanks for all the great work you do and will speak to you soon.
Marina Glogovac
Not at all, Andrew. Thank you.
Andrew Mosawi is the President at iATS Payments, an integrated payment processor designed and built exclusively to meet the needs of nonprofits.
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